Meeting 2008-09-03

Details

  • When: Wednesday 3rd September 2008 at 1900 BST (1800 GMT)

  • Where: #okfn irc channel on oftc.net (connect via Mibbit)

Participants

  • Jonathan Gray
  • Rufus Pollock
  • Iain Emsley
  • Rob Myers

Agenda

Please feel free to add anything you'd like to discuss to the agenda...

  • OKF events - including events in London this autumn and OKCon 2009
  • moving forward with CKAN
  • any open knowledge projects (including OKF projects)
    • Open Shakespeare/Milton etc.
  • re-designing the main OKF site;
  • an open knowledge competition?

Actions from last meeting

  • TODO: (rgrp) post to list about next ckan package party suggesting dates DONE

  • TODO: (sysadmin/rgrp): create ok-ox-discuss with iain + jwyg as administrator DONE

  • TODO: (rgrp) announce shakespeare hackathon to list DONE

  • TODO: (rgrp): create new MiniEvents page and (all) add stuff to it DONE

  • TODO: (jwyg) add ckan item to cofundos

Action

  • TODO: (jwyg) draft standard email re open shakespeare
  • TODO: (all) email relevant lists about OS/OM -- should probably coordinate this a bit
  • TODO: (jwyg) add ckan item to cofundos

IRC Log

(Time in CEST)

20:14:12 rgrp couple of things
20:14:37 jwyg yep..
20:14:39 rgrp as a starter could i invite people to check out http://www.microfacts.org/
20:15:10 rgrp this is just about to get launched and i want to see if it breaks in anyone's browser
20:15:30 rgrp (or everyone's ...)
20:15:46 robmyers1 seems ok on Firefox 3 on Fedora 9
20:16:09 robmyers1 Also I like the art facts, I wanted to ask about that kind of project.
20:16:25 rgrp does all the js stuff work
20:16:32 jwyg looks really nice!
20:16:34 rgrp e.g. you can click on factlets in a thread and they change
20:16:34 jwyg wow!
20:16:43 rgrp see http://www.microfacts.org/thread/read/3
20:16:50 robmyers1 once I put the exception in NoScript, yes.
20:16:52 rgrp also does the geochrono view work
20:16:59 rgrp :)
20:17:25 robmyers1 map with marker is ok, yes
20:17:55 jwyg editing doesn't seem to work yet?
20:18:06 robmyers1 which map service is that?
20:18:19 rgrp openlayers for the moment
20:18:36 rgrp you can swap e.g. googlemaps in with a single line but we wanted to be fully open (at least while developing ...)
20:18:38 * ipe (~chatzilla@78.147.182.89) has joined #okfn
20:19:16 robmyers1 OSM stuff is ideal
20:19:18 jwyg hey ipe
20:19:24 ipe Sorry, I'm late
20:19:40 rgrp robmyers1: do you know how to use that with openlayers.
20:20:09 rgrp while their data is great do you know a reliable service serving it because when i've used OSM qua site it has been pretty slow (at least at high res0
20:20:14 rgrp ipe: np
20:20:51 jwyg ipe: we're just looking at http://www.microfacts.org
20:21:57 ipe jwyb: thanks
20:21:58 rgrp in particular http://www.microfacts.org/thread/read/3
20:22:54 robmyers1 rgrp: hmm I don't know a good OSM server, I know one of the guys on the project has a company that uses the data. You could ask on the osm list? (I'm just on the legal list now).
20:23:00 robmyers1 microfacts looks great
20:23:25 jwyg rgrp: did it go live just now?
20:23:28 robmyers1 I was going to ask about arts-related projects, and art/literary school timelines are a good example
20:24:00 rgrp jwyg: no it hasn't gone officially live yet :)
20:24:07 rgrp but i'm all for soft launches
20:24:15 ipe This would be fantastic for Shakespeare/Milton - when live :)
20:24:21 rgrp it still needs quite a bit of work. e.g. factlet editing does not yet work
20:24:32 rgrp however if you know json you can load data into it pretty easily
20:24:49 rgrp there is also working code to basically dump the whole of wikipedia into it (via dbpedia)
20:24:52 rgrp :)
20:25:06 jwyg can i try creating a factlet? :-)
20:25:07 rgrp Our next demo on there should definitely be a shakespeare one
20:25:14 rgrp unfortunately not
20:25:25 jwyg :-)
20:25:30 rgrp factlet creation/editing is not functional (part of the reason is that it is thread creation which is the priority)
20:25:38 rgrp assumed we would import the factlets
20:26:01 ipe I take it, its on knowledgeforge? Would be fun to explore
20:26:05 jwyg cool
20:26:09 rgrp raw data looks like: http://knowledgeforge.net/microfacts/trac/browser/trunk/microfacts/data/napoleon.js
20:26:12 rgrp (as json)
20:26:34 robmyers1 oh cool
20:26:54 robmyers1 so some of that could be scripted to extract data from other sources?
20:27:01 rgrp yes
20:27:18 rgrp as i said we already have got to 'load' wikipedia into it as factlets via dbpedia
20:27:27 rgrp http://knowledgeforge.net/microfacts/trac/browser/trunk/microfacts/getdata/dbpedia.py
20:27:28 jwyg cool
20:27:56 rgrp however we have only done demo runs e.g. with ww2 data
20:28:10 rgrp unfortunately dbpedia code (and wikipedia itself) is a bit messy
20:28:22 rgrp e.g. dates like mar 18-jun 16 1944
20:28:26 rgrp which computers don't like
20:28:27 jwyg have you been in touch with soeren?
20:28:32 rgrp no, not yet
20:29:04 rgrp i'm not sure what they'd do about it (it is prob down to source ..)
20:29:45 jwyg hmm...
20:29:47 jwyg true..
20:30:39 rgrp one nice arty thing to do would be to have a timeline/geo view with indications of magnitude
20:30:48 rgrp for example one could make the symbols larger or smaller
20:30:58 rgrp I also thgouth it would fun to animate the map using the timeline
20:31:05 rgrp ie. as you scroll the timeline the map changes ...
20:31:20 rgrp these would both be neat for the original motivating use case: battles
20:31:28 rgrp military campaigns etc
20:31:40 robmyers1 yes that would be good
20:31:42 jwyg definitely
20:31:51 ipe That could be done with JS I think - ie changing image size
20:32:10 jwyg showing things moving on the map through time would be great..
20:32:25 robmyers1 there are JS animation libraries available that could be used for that.
20:32:30 ipe Timeline. Not seen the source code but again AJAX?
20:32:42 rgrp ipe: timeline is via the simile project
20:33:07 rgrp however hooking that together with the map so the two interact etc (and get data from backend) is indeed AJAX (or AJAJ as we use JSON)
20:33:48 rgrp btw anyone who wants to contribute can grab the source from http://knowledgeforge.net/microfacts/svn/
20:35:55 rgrp anyways ...
20:36:03 jwyg i don't know if this could be useful.. http://www.mkbergman.com/?p=417
20:36:55 jwyg (re: grabbing stuff from wikipedia..)
20:36:59 jwyg possibly tangential :-)
20:37:17 ipe Interesting though :)
20:38:02 rgrp jwyg: dbpedia and freebase have already done it so i'm not planning to reinvent the wheel there, just grab from them
20:38:06 rgrp :)
20:38:08 jwyg true :-)
20:38:23 jwyg anyhow.. microfacts looks great..
20:38:54 jwyg were we going to have a quick catch-up about open shakespeare?
20:38:59 ipe Presumably you could alter the JS calls for the time frame?
20:39:12 ipe I'll take a look at source code when hands free!
20:39:15 jwyg milton/literature :-)
20:39:25 rgrp yep
20:39:46 rgrp yes, we've been discussing some major refactoring
20:40:05 rgrp plus we still need a couple of volunteers to take a page or two each so we can finish the proofing to the EB stuff
20:40:23 rgrp http://okfn.org/wiki/tmp/BritannicaShakespeare/3
20:40:32 jwyg *raises hand*
20:40:55 ipe On ancillary material, the lead I was following on Open Archives a sort of bust
20:40:59 jwyg i've been meaning to do a bit more of this..
20:41:15 jwyg ipe: what do you mean?
20:41:17 ipe Following another one using Open Access
20:41:48 jwyg yeah..
20:41:54 ipe Archives/abstracts free - claims Scholarly/Digital commons but proquest digitised
20:42:11 rgrp so you mean non-open/free
20:42:16 ipe Proquest, I believe, behind Hansard and trapped
20:42:22 ipe Very
20:42:59 jwyg well..
20:43:07 ipe I spent an hour or so trying so hence I'll try the open access way in the next few days
20:43:29 jwyg you mentioned you contacted someone at archive.org?
20:43:34 rgrp what kind of ancillary material were you looking for
20:43:49 ipe Never heard back from archive :(
20:44:11 ipe Looking for any articles, video, text via openarchives.eu
20:44:19 jwyg they're pretty busy..
20:44:41 ipe Its why I haven't followed up yet
20:45:31 ipe It was also a general email. Might have another way to get some data but need to read it properly
20:46:03 rgrp in terms of the refactoring i was thinking of something along the lines:
20:46:19 rgrp for python packages
20:46:26 rgrp shakespeare -> openlit
20:46:44 rgrp shksprdata stays as it is or is renamed to shakespeare
20:46:49 ipe ?Make openlit the core
20:47:00 rgrp miltondata stays as is or becomes milton
20:47:00 rgrp ipe: yes
20:47:18 rgrp btw: as an aside can i remove the milton directory beside trunk?
20:47:18 ipe Please do!
20:47:19 jwyg ok..
20:48:16 rgrp jwyg: this might be getting a bit technical ;)
20:48:38 robmyers1 heh
20:48:51 jwyg no problem :-)
20:49:16 jwyg doing whois for variants of 'open literature'
20:49:19 rgrp robmyers1: you had some stuff you wanted to bring up
20:49:27 rgrp openliterature.net is available -- i already checked
20:49:32 rgrp at least i think
20:49:50 jwyg yep.. looks like it..
20:49:57 jwyg perhaps we should pounce :-)
20:50:11 * paulproteus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:50:27 robmyers1 yes. 1. I am trying out datapkg, where can I ask questions about it?
20:50:50 robmyers1 and 2. Is there any interest in a visual arts (or art history) equivalent to OpenShakespeare?
20:50:51 ipe okfn-help?
20:50:54 * mbarkhau has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
20:51:00 ipe Why not?
20:51:02 robmyers1 ipe: is that on this server?
20:51:24 rgrp robmyers1: yes of course
20:51:30 rgrp cool that someone is using it already
20:51:40 jwyg rob: i've been interested in doing stuff related to pd images for a while
20:52:00 rgrp could we do e.g. openarthistory.org
20:52:00 ipe A friend asked if we could import non-English language into it? His was curiosity talking but...
20:52:26 rgrp ipe: why not we are default unicode/utf8 ...
20:52:37 robmyers1 art - Well I was trying to think of something knowledgy. Leonardo's sketchbooks would be ideal but 1. I don't speak Italian and 2. they seem surprisingly well protected. ;-)
20:52:58 rgrp i think that kind of stuff would be great
20:52:59 robmyers1 art - So easily reproduced work with good relevence would perhaps be Hogarth.
20:53:01 ipe rgrp: That's what I thought.
20:53:52 rgrp robmyers1: that's would be great - hogarth has a good amount of social context too ...
20:54:02 robmyers1 yes. and ties in to the literary
20:54:13 robmyers1 also prints are easier to fins & scan ;-)
20:54:18 ipe Hogarth would be excellent in so many ways
20:54:21 jwyg sounds great!
20:54:30 robmyers1 kewl
20:54:33 ipe All the better then
20:54:50 robmyers1 OK so I'll see what I can track down
20:55:47 ipe How should I present Milton/Shakespeare - as coming to you as open Lit?
20:56:01 rgrp ipe: ?
20:56:29 ipe Bristol on Friday - Knowledge Unconference
20:56:50 ipe I'll talk about the OKD but the main in Milton/Shakespeare
20:57:06 rgrp ipe: ok, now i get you
20:57:24 ipe rgrp: sorry, skipping ahead again
20:57:27 rgrp i think the best way would be to demo OS as it is (either live or from your local install)
20:57:59 rgrp i think it would be good to emphasize the 'Why Open Shakespeare' section of http://www.openshakespeare.org/
20:58:17 rgrp then this leads naturally into Open Milton
20:58:18 jwyg i was just about to say :-)
20:58:26 ipe I've got a version (I think before the sqlalchemy refactor) on my laptop
20:58:28 rgrp this then leads naturally into 'generalizatoin'
20:58:43 rgrp if you ahve web may be easier to run live since everything si set up :)
20:58:48 ipe Indeed it does - I've only got 15 minutes
20:58:54 ipe Should do
20:58:59 jwyg and the possibility of lots of different tools, etc.
20:59:12 rgrp so I'd say 5 mins intro + OS demo
20:59:24 rgrp 5 mins on OM
20:59:30 rgrp 5 mins on generalization + conclusion
20:59:59 rgrp key point is that we want 'packages' not 'websites'
21:00:01 ipe I was going to use OM as package idea to show how folks can use it
21:00:07 rgrp website there to show off the package not to be the package
21:00:12 ipe Indeed
21:00:13 rgrp exactly that would be perfect
21:00:26 rgrp maybe you should even start with OM
21:00:36 rgrp it is a really nice story about the anniversary etc
21:00:44 ipe jwyg: I'll take my notebook and cards to get names as well
21:00:49 jwyg :-)
21:00:58 ipe rgrp: can't forget the anniversary
21:01:26 ipe Looks like an interesting Milton list on jiscmail- will mail as wel
21:01:31 jwyg would it be nice to have a few images for OM for launch?
21:01:40 jwyg cool!
21:01:48 jwyg did you email any lists about os?
21:02:06 ipe Shakespeare quieter.
21:02:24 ipe Not yet but sidetracked by deadlines
21:02:45 jwyg we should also post about OS to olpc lists...
21:02:51 ipe JISCmail quieter on that.
21:03:05 ipe Yes, yes, yes...
21:03:15 robmyers1 yes it would be great for OLPC
21:03:18 rgrp there's a ticket: http://knowledgeforge.net/shakespeare/trac/ticket/28
21:03:35 jwyg i know..
21:03:41 jwyg thats for me :-)
21:03:44 rgrp perhaps we should draft some kind of standard email on the wiki and then people can use that as the basis for contacting
21:03:55 rgrp it would be good to share out the contacting :)
21:03:56 ipe We should do that
21:04:00 jwyg action me :-)
21:04:07 rgrp poor old ipe has got enough :)
21:04:19 * paulproteus (~paulprote@wide-rose.makesad.us) has joined #okfn
21:04:30 rgrp todo: jwyg draft standard email re open shakespeare
21:04:32 robmyers1 heya paulproteus
21:04:55 rgrp todo: (all) email relevant lists about OS/OM -- should probably coordinate this a bit
21:05:34 jwyg great!
21:05:42 paulproteus Howdy robmyers1!
21:05:43 rgrp if ipe takes the jisc lists what about jwyg takes olpc
21:05:45 jwyg we could put a list of places contacted by draft email
21:05:58 rgrp there is also shaksper: http://www.shaksper.net/
21:06:10 rgrp jwyg: sounds good (let's put that draft on the main okfn wiki)
21:06:24 jwyg e.g. http://okfn.org/wiki/okcon2008/material
21:06:38 jwyg yep great
21:06:42 rgrp yes but even simpler :)
21:07:11 jwyg gee whiz the wiki is so big
21:08:02 jwyg is there a shakespeare page on the wiki?
21:08:13 jwyg i should spend a bit of time consolidating project pages..
21:08:22 robmyers1 set up a project page for that ;-)
21:08:47 jwyg perhaps i'll create a page for openlit like http://okfn.org/wiki/ckan ?
21:08:51 robmyers1 right, gottago. Will think about Hogarth & pester about datapkg
21:08:56 jwyg great!
21:08:58 robmyers1 [idling]
21:09:10 rgrp jwyg: no, but take a look at the stuff under http://okfn.org/wiki/projects
21:09:28 ipe There's a page at: http://www.okfn.org/shakespeare/
21:09:32 rgrp jwyg: there's more important things for the mo :)
21:09:42 rgrp ipe: yep
21:09:49 jwyg nods :-)
21:10:02 rgrp that's the official page, rarely updated, privileged access so it does not get spammed etc
21:10:08 rgrp but can have pages on teh wiki too
21:10:28 rgrp btw main website stuff can go in: http://okfn.org/wiki/WebsiteTasks
21:10:44 rgrp robmyers1: good to see you and sounds great
21:10:56 rgrp robmyers1: please do ask about datapkg
21:11:12 rgrp i wrote most of it so should be able to help
21:11:19 rgrp plus we are about to release it properly ...
21:11:23 rgrp (another release!)
21:13:22 jwyg great news..
21:14:18 rgrp ok, shall we call it a day